For today's show,
we are with Lee Se Dol, level nine.
After finishing his upcoming, final match,
he will retire from being a professional Go player.
Could you tell us why?
(Why did he decide to retire?)
I used to be confident.
I see.
I used to believe that I was the best...
or one of the best.
So the match with the AI was a final blow for me.
You encountered a more powerful opponent.
In my opinion, it was invincible.
That's when I realized that I should step down.
(Kim Hyun Jin)
(Because I Want to Talk)
(Lee Dong Wook, actor and talk show host)
(Seo Young Do Band)
(Seo Young Do, Lee Myung Geon, Yeo Jin Woo, Park Gi Hoon)
Hello, Because I Want to Talk is back again.
My name is Lee Dong Wook.
It's nice to meet you again.
(He wants to talk.)
(Jang Do Yeon)
Do you buy lotteries often?
Please raise your hand if you have.
I see. Do Yeon, you too?
Yes.
The reason why I brought this up...
was because I wanted to talk about probability.
You need to get all six digits right.
But the probability of doing that...
is 1 to 8,140,000.
The probability is similar to that of getting hit by lightning...
- twice. - Not once, but twice?
Yes. However,
there's something else that has an even lower probability.
19 by 19. It's a match that takes place over 361 dots.
It's Go.
(Go)
People have said that for the past thousands of years,
there has never been two identical matches.
The probability rate is close to infinity.
Some even say that the number is larger...
than that of atoms in the universe.
That's why Go is at times compared to the universe.
(Go is like the universe.)
Today's guest...
has conquered this universe.
He is the only person...
who won a match against AlphaGo...
that caught the entire world's attention.
(Could it be him?)
It's the Go player, Lee Se Dol, level nine.
(Lee Se Dol, level 9, professional Go player)
Hello.
Let's go over there.
(Welcome, Se Dol.)
Hello.
It's nice to meet you.
(He doesn't forget to greet the band.)
He's the very first guest...
to greet the band.
(Does that mean...)
- I'm guessing Gong Yoo didn't. - You're right.
He's too busy bragging about himself.
Of course, I'm handsome.
(You can brag like this as much as you like.)
Even if you don't know much about Go,
I'm sure almost everyone knows about him.
Do you know me?
- Of course, I do. - Hold on.
- You're... - Didn't I look like...
a religious fanatic?
That wasn't it.
You seem familiar.
- Do I? - Yes.
You were the Grim Reaper in "Goblin".
- Right. - I remember that.
But more than that, I like you even better on "Touch Your Heart".
- "Touch Your Heart"? - Yes.
- And there's also "My Girl". - Right.
You starred in that drama.
I rewatched it three times.
- He remembers all of them. - He knows...
- your filmography. - Exactly.
(He remembers all of Dong Wook's works.)
You watched it three times?
I like to fast forward when watching something,
so it takes 10 to 15 minutes to finish an episode.
Do you remember everything that happened?
I thought I did, but I do find new things...
when watching it the second time around.
It's fascinating.
Personally, I have many questions...
to ask.
You've announced your retirement and have an upcoming, final match.
It's a match between him and Handol.
Its name sounds quite familiar.
Lee Se Dol and Handol.
I'm sure it wasn't easy to agree to do it...
since you've had a match with an AI before.
So why did you agree...
to do it again?
Instead of doing a normal match,
I wanted to do a celebratory one...
before retiring.
Several players' names popped up in my head.
But it was...
a bit difficult for me to ask them.
It would've been difficult for them to refuse since I was retiring.
Right, it could've made them feel uncomfortable.
So I couldn't ask them. That's when the offer came.
They asked about a match against Handol.
An AI wouldn't feel uncomfortable about this.
I didn't think it'd be that bad,
so I decided to do it.
The match is on December 18.
This episode will air on that day.
At 10pm that day, this episode would air on TV.
He would've finished round one...
earlier that afternoon.
Let's try to predict it.
Do you think you'll win?
I do have an AI installed on my computer back home.
I do, and it's impossible to beat.
There's a much higher probability...
of my losing.
I'm not saying this to avoid answering it.
But...
It feels funny and sad.
I feel like it'll be like that.
I'm already a bit worried.
When he mentioned that he could lose,
it got me a bit teary-eyed.
If you do end up losing,
shouldn't I barge in and unplug the AI?
You could shut down the fuse box.
Right, it'd be no match against us.
Right, what could it do?
Thank you. Many people have said similar things...
during my match with AlphaGo.
How dare an AI try to win against a human being?
Exactly.
There will be a total of three rounds.
They tweak things a bit after every round.
If you lose a round, you receive an advantage...
for the next round.
Right, I wanted to ask you about this.
They say Go is all about tweaking.
I'm sure many of our viewers aren't familiar with those thing...
and terms like "hoseon".
So we've prepared a Go board.
(He will explain it to us.)
- It'd be great if he explained it. - That'd be wonderful.
We'd be greatly honored.
I'm a bit embarrassed to do that here.
(Se Dol and the Go board go hand in hand.)
- Go is played with black and white. - Right.
You take turns.
This feels very awkward.
I can't believe I'm actually witnessing this.
A hoseon match is when you play Go...
by taking turns.
The player who goes first has an advantage.
So white is given 6.5 jibs more.
I'm sure you're not familiar with the term "jib".
You place the stones on the dots.
This is one jib.
- I see. - I'll give you an example.
Let's say it looks something like this.
- This is blocked. - Right.
- Right. - It's blocked.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. There are 9 here.
- There are 9 jibs. - Right.
Like so, the players take turns.
And black gives white 6.5 jibs.
But for this upcoming match, I'll receive an advantage.
I'll be able to place two stones at once.
If you're able to place two stones at once,
it means that you have the priority...
- in controlling these 9 jibs. - Correct.
That means you're receiving around 10.5 jibs.
It's around that many.
You'll start off with about 11 jibs.
But it's still difficult for humans to win.
- Right. - Could you tell us...
how good Handol is?
I heard that it beat Park Jung Hwan, level nine,
and Shin Jin Seo, level nine,
who are the top two best players as of now.
I can't beat it through a game of hoseon.
What matters is how much of an advantage I receive.
Otherwise, it's impossible.
So through a fair game,
- it's impossible to win. - Right.
Even with this much advantage, it'll be difficult.
It won't be easy.
(Dong Wook wants to know Handol.)
This place is nice.
There's a reason I'm here.
I'll be meeting Handol, Se Dol's opponent.
I'll get some information about it.
That's why I've infiltrated this office.
To be frank, this isn't an infiltration.
We asked beforehand.
- Hello. - Hello.
I'm Lee Chang Yul, a developer from Game AI Department.
It's nice to meet you.
Do you play the most important role in Handol's creation?
All our team members do.
I see.
Will I be able to meet Handol?
With the upcoming match,
Handol is practicing very hard.
- Is it? - Yes.
- Would you like to take a look? - Sure, let's go.
This way.
Hello.
(He sets out to spy on it.)
I'm finally getting to meet it.
I'm sorry about asking, but does it know that I'm coming?
- Sorry? - I'm sorry.
He looked very dumbfounded.
(Chang Yul doesn't tolerate jokes.)
- Is that Handol? - Yes.
(Handol is practicing.)
It really doesn't take long for it to make a decision.
A match ends in 1 to 2 minutes.
It plays hundreds of thousands of matches.
(Handol 3.0: The most recent version that can play on its own,)
(make inferences, and do simulations)
We began developing Handol since 2017.
For Handol 2.0,
it could only play matches against other Handols.
It had over a 90-percent winning rate...
against professional players.
But this upcoming one will be Handol 3.0, correct?
Yes. Handol 3.0 has a winning rate of 90 percent...
against Handol 2.0.
Handol 2.0 had over a 90-percent winning rate...
against professional players.
But Handol 3.0 has a winning rate of 90 percent...
- against Handol 2.0? - Correct.
How does Handol 2.0 feel about that?
I'm sure it's sad.
It's an AI.
My apologies.
Is it safe to say...
that for this upcoming match,
you've inserted Se Dol's past records into it?
We've inserted no human records.
So Handol 3.0 has been improving...
solely on its own.
During its learning,
tens of millions of models appear.
Among them,
we only pick the elites.
I see. It's like "Sky Castle".
Grades matter the most.
You're very cold-hearted, aren't you?
Handol needs to do well.
(It needs to climb to the top of the pyramid.)
When we think of Go and AI, we think of AlphaGo.
Could you compare Handol's ability to AlphaGo's?
If I were to compare them,
AlphaGo beat Lee Se Dol by 4 to 1.
Handol is a bit better than it.
- It's slightly more upgraded. - Right.
And at the worldwide AI Go match,
it came 3rd place only 2 years after it was made.
I see.
(Handol, came 3rd place at the worldwide AI Go match)
This will be...
an unpredictable, neck and neck match.
Handol versus Lee Dong Wook.
Who will have the last laugh?
(Lee Dong Wook is given 41 jibs to start with.)
(Handol puts down his first stone.)
(He looks at Handol's play and follows it.)
Why did it choose to put it here?
(Go rookie, amateur level 17)
All right, then.
I'll block its move.
(And thus begins the never-ending defense.)
(Handol puts down its second stone.)
I will stop it from taking a step forward.
I'll show it how resilient humans are.
(He glances for the 1st time.)
(He glances for the 2nd time.)
(He glances for the 3rd time.)
(He glances for the 4th time.)
From now on, you're banned from glancing more than...
three times per turn.
I'm getting affected by this.
(Like so, the match continues.)
(Then Handol makes a crucial move.)
It keeps going up.
(Handol's winning rate suddenly rises.)
(AI tries to win the ridiculous game.)
Is there a chance for me to win?
- A lot. - A lot?
There are many conclusive possibilities.
(Where?)
Here's one.
- There? - If you want to.
Here and here too if you want.
There are so many.
- Right. Right. - If you want to...
- take over. - Right. Right.
(She's Handol employee.)
- Okay. - Something like this.
If I put it here, do I win?
(I'm lonely.)
(Right then...)
What are you doing?
Did you just throw it?
(If you throw the piece, it means you surrender.)
It slipped.
(I'm innocent.)
For how long was Handol trained...
to compete against Lee Se Dol?
When it plays against Lee Se Dol,
it's given two points.
Handol has never...
done that type of learning yet.
It learned to play hoseon only?
Honestly,
(The AI team is worried.)
I'm not sure how it will go.
I wonder if it could win at least one game.
I'm worried about it.
After your match with Handol was announced,
- the most searched word rank... - It was crazy.
was seized by it.
How would you like the nation to remember this match?
For this match,
I thought whether I win or not,
I wanted to be confident.
That's actually my goal.
- Whether... - Whether I win or not,
I want to stay confident...
since this is the last match.
(This footage is edited on the day.)
(Handol was dominating until the middle of the game.)
Just now, AI Handol's situation judgment rose high.
(Then Se Dol makes a move.)
- Right. The graph... - The rate just dropped.
His move in the center suddenly dropped the rate.
But will Handol... What?
- Let's take a look. - In this case,
Se Dol is highly likely to win.
- It's an automatic victory. - Se Dol won automatically.
(Contrary to his expectation, he won.)
- That's amazing. - Congratulations.
(In the end, Se Dol was confident.)
What you said...
make me ruminate on my situation.
I'm not fluctuated by the viewer ratings on past episodes.
- Nor by so many texts or comments. - Of course.
I hope...
when Because I Want to Talk...
ends with 12 episodes,
(When it ends with 12 episodes...)
I want to be confident.
(Cheer up.)
Don't be like that.
Only you can pull that position off.
Are you crying?
When I heard that you were joining this show,
I looked into your Go life.
There were few things...
I wanted to clarify if they were true.
I'd like to ask you if you don't mind, do you?
- Not at all. - Okay.
It's time for news literacy.
This is Jang Do Yeon's Fact Check.
(Jang Do Yeon's Fact Check)
I read one article.
"The reason Lee Se Dol doesn't get a haircut during a match..."
"is due to a jinx."
Like Samson's power?
I see why people say that.
Big matches are usually held...
- at the end of the year. - Right.
They're usually held at the end of the year.
At the end of the year, I have long hair.
Then...
do you cut a haircut once in spring...
and keep growing your hair?
I get maybe 1 or 2 haircuts in a year.
This has nothing to do with jinx or anything.
Are you just lazy?
Yes.
Those four letters settle it.
I actually go to a barber shop.
I don't mind it.
But when I'm at a hair salon,
they ask me how I would like to do it.
Then I say,
"I want a little long crew cut."
That's what I tell them.
That's the only hairstyle I know of.
But people these days don't know.
They're like, "Pardon?"
"What's a long crew cut?"
You can bring a photo of a celebrity and ask for that hairstyle.
That's easier.
Or since there are many pictures of you online,
pick your favorite...
and ask for that hairstyle.
- Bring his own picture? - He can bring his own picture.
"I am the celebrity."
I like that idea.
- That's a good idea. - You like it.
- Let's move onto the next one. - All right.
"As if he was born for Go,"
"his name and occupation match perfectly."
There are a few theories on this name.
"His name is Se Dol because he's the third child."
Another one claims,
"His name is Se Dol because he has three moles on back of his neck."
These are the theories.
It's like the birth myth of a nation.
- Right. - These theories are...
Like saying Park Hyeokgeose was born in an egg.
But then...
I don't know what I looked like when I was born.
I doubt that I had moles since birth.
I do have them though.
- You do. I can see them. - I do have them.
I doubt that I had them since birth.
I think I was named Se Dol...
because I'm the third son.
But kids don't normally name themselves.
No.
- None of them do. - Right.
But...
The thing is no one can tell the exact reason.
- We could leave it as a birth myth. - Let's do that.
Let's move onto the next one.
This is famous.
"I'm not sure."
"I'm not sure if I'll lose."
This is a famous line by Se Dol.
That's really famous.
You said that's also your favorite line?
No. It's not that I like it,
but I did say that.
The thing is...
it was the final.
Whoever wins the first two rounds wins,
and I won the first round.
Someone asked me, "Will it be over tomorrow?"
I said, "I'm not sure."
"Why not? Do you not feel well?"
I said, "I'm not sure if I'll lose."
You were joking.
You were making a joke.
I was shy, so I left.
Then it was on the newspaper.
I didn't say that officially.
I wasn't trying to be cool. I ran away because I was shy.
But overall,
- it's a legendary line. - I agree.
When I look into guests,
sometimes I'm not sure...
whether some information is true.
For accurate information,
I suggest you to check who wrote it...
and cross check.
This is Fact Check. I'm Jang Do Yeon.
(She doesn't forget the details.)
I continue...
to notice...
that Se Dol is very confident.
But he's not showing off or anything.
I believe his confidence comes from...
believing in himself and being the top.
We have a segment...
called Flex Talk.
I prepared a few keywords.
When I say those keywords,
- let me know if you want to brag. - Okay.
A genius type.
(Flex keyword: A genius type)
Is Se Dol a genius or a man of effort?
I've always wanted to know.
- A genius. - Okay. A genius.
I'm more of a genius in terms of Go.
- Nice. - Okay.
When you flex,
you may sit like this.
- Please do it. - That's not what I meant.
(You mean like this?)
That's right. Good job.
[VIU Ver] SBS E03 'Because Lee Dong Wook Wants to Talk' "Lee Se Dol" -♥ Ruo Xi ♥-
I'm just going with the flow, but that's not what I meant.
I'm not like that.
I'm flustered.
(He's modest.)
But if I were to brag,
I became a Go player at the age of 13.
Actually...
it's not easy to become a pro player.
It's not that easy.
It's not just easy.
It's as hard as a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
I wasn't worried about becoming a pro player.
(Exclaiming)
So, you're saying,
you knew you'd become a pro player.
Of course. It was only a matter of time.
(It was only a matter of time.)
(He flexed successfully.)
I'll stop there.
I'm not like this.
"I know I'll become a pro player,"
"but..."
"would I break the age record of a youngest player?"
That's what he meant.
I'm just disappointed that I didn't break that record.
Look how relaxed he is.
There's one more thing I'd like to ask. Do you think...
a person with effort can catch up a Go genius?
Here's the thing. When a genius puts effort,
it gets scary.
That can be his quotation.
Every time you say that, you look...
(He looks scary.)
You tilt your head.
(The fierce eyes of the former world Go champion)
- That's right. - Yes.
Although he's got one last match coming up,
he has officially announced his retirement as a Go player.
In fact, I've been meaning to ask him something,
but it's kind of a sensitive question.
Could you please tell us more about how it happened?
(What's the real reason behind your retirement?)
- I used to have this pride. - Right.
- I thought I was the best. - Yes.
Or at least one of the best. That's what I thought.
But then, AI put the final nail in my coffin.
- The matches against AlphaGo? - Yes.
The way I see it, it's just unbeatable.
- Because AI's invincible? - Yes.
In this situation, no matter how hard we try,
I don't think there will be any point.
That kind of thought crossed my mind.
I first started playing Go when I was 6 or 7.
Back then, it was more about courtesy and manners.
It was more like learning art.
But at some point after I grew up,
it began to be considered as a mind sport.
- The Go I learned was art, - I see.
- the art piece made by two people. - Right.
However, this is totally different.
- That's right. - Yes.
How do we call this art?
You know, AI is nothing like art.
What I learned was art,
but after AI came to the scene, the concept itself...
- was profoundly crushed. - That's right.
That's when I thought it wouldn't be easy...
to keep pursuing this career.
Well, I see.
Go player Lee Se Dol, level nine, suffered a shocking defeat...
by the artificial intelligence AlphaGo.
Go player Lee Se Dol, level nine, was shockingly defeated...
by the AI AlphaGo after three consecutive losses.
(The loneliness he felt while fighting alone against the AI)
(The regrets he had after the unexpected defeat)
(However, what let him down the most...)
(was the sad truth that Go is no longer art.)
(March 2016, Lee Se Dol versus AlphaGo)
I heard you lost as much as 9kg...
while you prepared and played these matches.
You don't seem to have any weight to lose though.
Well, back then...
Because you cared about it so much?
- Unlike what I predicted, - Right.
- I lost three matches in a row. - Yes.
- So it was kind of stressful. - It must've been.
- That troubled me a little. - I see.
At that time, what he said was,
"I'll definitely win. Machines are still no match for humans."
- This is what you said. - Right.
Now that I think back, I feel a little embarrassed.
I was like, "Come on. This is Go."
You know, there are numerous possibilities in Go.
That's right.
I thought it was still far behind humans.
- This kind of stupid idea... - I see.
was in my head back then.
I should've listened more carefully...
- to what the AI experts said. - You didn't listen?
I should've listened to them and prepared more thoroughly,
but I was just caught up with my own ideas.
I actually watched the match live on TV.
Although I didn't know much about Go,
the social atmosphere left me with no choice.
- That's right. - Because...
more than seven channels were airing it live.
It was on every channel, so I watched it.
And I think it was probably the first match.
I still remember your face.
Your face suddenly hardened.
You looked as if you were hit in the head.
What went through your mind when you made such a face?
In fact, things went really bad during the early part of the match.
- I'm still in a tough situation, - Okay.
- but I managed to bound back. - I see.
- Once I got recovered a little, - Yes.
I thought, "It looks like the AI made more and more mistakes..."
- "as the match went on." - Right.
"Then there might be a chance for me to win."
- You thought you had a way out? - Yes.
"I guess machines are still imperfect."
This is when those kinds of thoughts ran through my mind.
I see.
- That's why I put a stone here. - All right.
- right here to save these stones. - Okay.
Of course, everyone now knows this move...
since AlphaGo has already shown it once,
but it's really hard to come up with this kind of move...
- in a real match. - I see.
Because if you look at here, you can see...
- a lot of black stones, right? - Yes.
- That's right. - That means my territory almost...
- Your territory is almost formed. - Yes, when it's already formed,
it's not easy to put a stone in the middle of it.
With this one move,
- you realized you had no chance? - Yes.
It was too late to overturn it.
The reason the AI gave me some slack around here was...
probably because it thought ahead for that move.
(Did it let him win for the next move?)
- It just let you win? - That's right.
I just got goosebumps.
(The AI even played a mind game.)
So it kind of tricked you, right?
Well, I don't know. Because I have no way...
- to read its mind. - That's right.
- We have no one to ask that. - Actually, I did ask him...
if it tricked him,
but I had no idea why I asked him that question.
Now I know how frustrated you were.
- That's right. - This is so frustrating.
If it were a human, we can make it confess...
- by grabbing him by the collar. - I know, right?
In that case,
whereabouts did you expect that...
the AI would put the 102th move...
instead of this point?
- In this situation, - Yes.
it could be this area, maybe on this point.
It could be either that area or this area.
- From what I see. - You thought it would rather...
- expand its territory. - That's right.
However, it came right into my territory first...
and expanded its territory from there.
It tried to expand its base by taking advantage of my territory.
Anyway, with this move, we can say...
this game is already over.
It's beyond our capabilities.
I'm afraid this is not a relevant story to the matches.
My family and I stayed in the hotel together.
- I mean my wife and daughter. - I see.
And I felt really bad.
- For your family? - Yes, after I lost the first match.
Although I was the one who lost, I felt really bad for them.
But back then, I tried to hide my feelings.
Because I was really sorry.
They came all the way to the hotel and stayed with me.
So if I lose,
- not only my wife... - Yes.
- Your daughter? - but also my daughter...
- will probably be quite sad. - I see.
And also, people might blame them for distracting me...
- from concentrating on the match. - Right.
Well, that's mostly how I felt back then.
Let me ask your wife a question.
She's here.
She's in tears right now.
She was wiping her tears.
Do I know you?
Hello, nice to meet you.
He just said he felt really bad for his family after the first game.
Is this your first time hearing this story?
Yes.
I guess that's why it made you tear up.
Yes, I was also surprised that I cried.
At that time, what was in your mind?
While he was playing the match,
I watched it with a friend who is also a Go player.
And that friend looked too serious,
- so I was a bit worried. - Yes.
But when he came back later, he looked just fine.
So I just assumed he was okay.
Aside from the matches with AlphaGo,
he doesn't normally come home...
and talk about his matches afterward, does he?
(He's getting anxious.)
Well, at home, he either shows us his bright side...
or goes into a room to spend time alone.
He doesn't normally let it show even when he's in a bad mood.
I guess he doesn't normally express his feelings.
- Right. - Nevertheless,
he said he felt bad for his family after the first match.
- So you felt overwhelmed. - Yes.
- And he's never said it before. - Yes.
And the 2nd and the 3rd matches continued,
but you happened to lose three consecutive matches.
Like a strange twist of fate,
the day he had the third match...
was their 10-year wedding anniversary.
- Wedding anniversary? - Yes.
On that day, did you have the luxury...
to think about your 10-year anniversary?
To be honest, I don't remember well.
I didn't even know it was...
our 10-year anniversary.
I only knew it when I read the article.
The more we talked,
- the more I realized something. - Wait.
- Please go ahead. - We have different memories.
- How? - Why?
- DeepMind Technologies... - Yes.
sent us a bottle of wine...
- to celebrate our anniversary. - I see.
I thought that was so annoying.
Instead, they should've let you win.
(A bottle of wine after beating me 3 times?)
That's not how you congratulate people.
If my memory serves me right, we talked about this together.
I remember after hearing that.
(Her memory is back.)
You two have different memories.
Actually, both Lee Se Dol and his wife...
don't even care much about their own business.
In most cases, we're the ones who make a fuss over their business.
In fact, I'm not the type who likes to celebrate birthdays...
- or wedding anniversaries. - I see.
However, I took extra care for that day.
This was my plan back then.
To beat the AI by 3 to 0...
and then, celebrate our 10-year anniversary.
(To spend the 10-year anniversary in a good mood)
I came up with such a ridiculous plan.
That plan didn't go well,
and you ended up losing three consecutive matches.
Judging by the fact that your wife has a vague memory of that day,
it must've been a hard time for you both.
For the long-awaited fourth match you mentioned earlier,
the morning has broken.
How was your feeling that morning?
It wasn't really great. I was losing by 3 to 0.
And, honestly, I was skeptical that I could ever win.
- So I felt a little down. - Right.
Then my daughter said, "It's 3 to 0. Just drop it."
- "Just stay and hang out with me" - I see.
- That really lifted my mood. - Right.
So I answered, "But Dad still needs to go."
- Even so, Dad has a job to do. - Right.
Anyway, that gave me great strength.
Just like that, the fourth match started,
where you showed us a divine move.
This move gave humankind...
the first and the last victory...
while giving the AI the last defeat.
And it became known as a divine move.
I tried really hard to restrain myself at the beginning.
It wasn't how I play Go, to be honest.
- It wasn't my style. - I see.
Because I had to hold myself back.
- What I was wrong about it... - Yes.
was I thought it wouldn’t do well at the beginning.
(He thought AlphaGo wouldn’t do well at the beginning.)
- When there's no stone, - Right.
it's got nothing to calculate.
- Yes, because there's nothing. - Right.
In fact, the difference between our abilities...
is the largest at the beginning.
Only after I lost by 3 to 0,
I got a hunch.
I realized it was stupid...
to give it my all in early in the match.
So I decided to lie low at first...
and to aim for a loophole, something like a bug,
- when it's halfway through. - I see.
- So you held back and waited? - Yes.
Although things weren't looking good,
- Still hold back and wait? - I kept waiting and waiting.
That's how this works.
Well, this is a little...
This 78th move was a technique called "wedge".
which people praised about.
(Mankind's divine move)
To be honest, this move wasn't that critical.
It doesn’t really make a great impact on the points.
But anyway,
- the AI didn't expect this move. - Right.
If the AI sees the unexpected move,
it's more likely to make bugs.
(The AI can also make a mistake.)
So the AI probably...
didn't see this coming, I guess.
And after the 78th move,
AlphaGo started acting a bit weird.
- It started acting really weird. - I see.
Did you notice that right away...
- or after a few moves? - At first,
I thought it was trying to trick me again.
- I had a suspicion. - Right.
- I thought there must be something. - I see.
But after a few moves, I realized it was having some issues.
Do you remember its moves?
I don't know. It was just really weird.
- Humans would never do that. - Right.
It kept putting stones on unthinkable positions.
All I can remember now is thinking how weird it was.
From this moment, it looked completely lost.
(It finally collapsed.)
Do you remember the time...
when you left the press conference after you beat AlphaGo?
There's a very famous picture.
- It made a big issue. - This is the picture.
You look like...
you have a smirk on your face.
Only one corner of your mouth turned up.
I remember I smiled back then.
Was it more like scoffing?
Like your famous remark, "It wasn't humanity's defeat, but mine alone."
It's the opposite. "It wasn't humanity's victory, but mine alone."
"It's my victory."
(It wasn't humanity's victory, but my victory.)
I couldn’t be happier when I won after three consecutive defeats.
I think this victory is absolutely priceless.
Ms. Kim, I'd like to ask how you felt...
when he won his first victory.
Don't you remember that either?
This is not a hearing. So feel free to speak your mind.
While I was watching the match,
I noticed the officials from Google...
suddenly started to stir.
(We're doomed.)
And I also remember the officials from Google,
who were next to me, suddenly disappeared.
To find a way to win, right?
Why do I feel pleased to hear that Google was crushed?
I know, right?
Just hearing you say that they suddenly started to stir...
sent shivers down my spine.
You know the thrills when you see a tie-breaker...
- in a soccer match? - That's right.
It gives much bigger thrills than that.
Back then, when AlphaGo declared defeat...
- A pop-up message showed up. - On the captions.
When it popped up, did you see it straight away?
- I didn't know it was there. - I see.
I was just focused.
- And there was Aja Huang, - Aja Huang?
who placed stones for AlphaGo. And he suddenly gestured to me.
Speaking of Aja Huang, I have a personal question.
He's a remarkable person.
Aja Huang played...
AlphaGo's moves...
- What's wrong? - What is it?
Just the thought of him makes me laugh.
He's really remarkable man.
- In what way? - What's so remarkable?
- Well, he's just... - Let's have a laugh together.
(Let's have a laugh together.)
I mean, he's just a human, right?
- AlphaGo is the AI. - Yes.
- But I think he's actually AlphaGo. - Right.
How come?
Because he has no expression on his face?
- Not only he's poker-faced, - Yes.
but he also never went to the bathroom.
That's right. That was also a big issue.
- He never went to the bathroom. - He never left his seat.
When he drank water, It looked very weird.
- Since machines can't drink water. - He was like this.
- I wasn't sure if was water or oil. - My gosh.
(Drinking a tiny amount of water very slowly)
- Just enough to wet his lips? - Yes.
It's like a robot.
- His movements were really slow. - That's really interesting.
He moved very slowly and patiently.
So while I was watching him, I wondered about who he really was.
(Who really is this person?)
It seriously felt like I was playing Go with a robot.
He must've been practicing at home.
Right. To speak like a robot.
To try to act like a robot.
According to what I heard later, he didn't drink water...
because he wasn't allowed to go to the bathroom.
- I see. - Since he couldn't leave his seat.
He had a sense of duty, I guess.
Yes, that's right. The reason he had no expression...
was also because he wasn't allowed to do so.
- Since it might be a hint? - Yes.
His role was only limited...
- to place stones instead of the AI. - That's right.
- That's why he was poker-faced. - I see.
- But if you see that in person, - Right.
it feels very awkward.
AlphaGo's official record...
is 73 wins and 1 lose in a total of 74 matches.
AlphaGo's one and only loss...
was the victory made by Lee Se Dol right here.
Thank you.
(The only human who beat AlphaGo, Lee Se Dol)
(Situational Talk)
(Setting up an extreme situation to analyze the guest)
(The Match of the Century)
(17-step Amateur Lee Dong Wook versus 9-level Pro Lee Se Dol)
The match of the century watched by the whole world.
(Bursting into laughter)
(Feeling awkward)
I'm sorry.
A match between a world-class Go player Lee Se Dol, level nine,
who's the only human who beat AlphaGo,
and a 17-step amateur player Lee Dong Wook,
who will introduce an innovative talk show,
will be held right in this place.
Please exchange bows.
(He feels apologetic for some reason.)
Before we begin, let's hear your resolutions first.
Where were you looking at?
A 17-step amateur player Lee Dong Wook, are you confident?
No, I'm not confident.
(I'm not confident about losing.)
I'm not confident about losing.
(Lost for words)
I think that could be possible.
Because I'm an amateur too.
Since we're both amateurs, you really have a chance to win.
This is Game One.
It needs creative thinking that doesn't conform to rigid thinking.
It's Nonsense Quiz.
(Game One, Nonsense Quiz)
I look forward to seeing some master skills.
We will start with a warm-up quiz.
What is the opposite of "smile"?
- Opposite of "smile"? - Yes.
- You mean "smile", right? - That's right.
What is the opposite of "smile"?
- "Rotten smile". - "Rotten smile".
What about you?
- "Smile"? - "Smile".
(Being serious)
5, 4,
3, 2, 1.
The answer is "pull smile".
(The answer is "pull smile".)
(Oh!)
- "Push smile" and "pull smile". - Oh, push?
Push and pull.
- Pull and... I see. - Yes.
- We will start the main event. - Okay.
If you know the answer, call out your name...
- and answer. - Okay.
- I will give you the question. - This...
strangely makes me nervous.
This is strange.
This is the question.
When the apple smiles?
- What? "When the apple smiles"? - Yes.
When the apple smiles, it's...
- You have to answer what it is. - "When the apple smiles"?
When the apple smiles...
It's scary.
Please answer.
"When the apple smiles"?
"When the apple smiles..."
The apple?
Please give us a hint.
It has three words.
Think about sounds of laughter.
- Sounds of laughter? - Yes, that's right.
It's "blank apple".
- Can you give us... - Yes?
the initial sound of the blank?
(The initial sound of the blank)
This is the worst.
(Please tell us.)
Shall I tell you the initial sound?
- Yes. - It is "p".
- It's "p"? - Yes.
I got it. I mean Dong Wook.
Please go ahead.
It's a green apple.
That is correct.
(Green apple is the answer.)
It will proceed in this way.
- This quiz will... - I don't get it.
It's similar to the sound of a short laughter.
(Oh!)
You are great.
I am?
It was an answer everyone knew, except for you.
- This is the second question. - Yes.
Describe Lee Se Do's daughter's 1st birthday in 6 words.
Can I make a suggestion?
Six words are too long.
(These people...)
- You should shorten it. - It took us an hour...
to get three words.
Even if you do "blank apple", it won't work.
I can't even get one word.
(Let me see...)
- Dong Wook. - Yes?
Lee Se Dol's second generation birthday.
(Oh!)
That is correct.
(Level 17, Lee Dong Wook answers correctly.)
- Do you get this? - I got this one.
Lee Se Dol's second generation birthday.
(Lee Se Dol's second generation birthday.)
I couldn't even imagine it.
- You are good at this. - You're so good.
This is a mismatch.
I'm trying my best.
I see.
Which one should I do? How about this one?
What do you refer to when Song Hae showers?
(What do you refer to when Song Hae showers?)
Think about how it would feel.
How do we feel after a shower?
- Dong Wook. - Yes?
It's "Refreshed Song Hae".
"Refreshed Song Hae"?
That is so weird.
It's incorrect.
It's up to you.
- This is your chance. - I have no idea.
I have no idea.
- I'll tell you the initial sounds. - Please do.
It's the sound of "p".
- "P"? - Yes.
It's "p" and Song Hae.
When daddy goes work
(P sounds)
Song Hae.
Tinky Winky
Dipsy
- Laa-Laa - Laa-Laa
- "P", Song Hae. - "P".
(This is not a freeze-screen.)
"Train for Seoul is departing now."
("Peep, peep")
- It's a "p"? - "Peep, peep."
(Is he listening to the hints?)
Se Dol.
(Finally)
(Please)
(Everyone is of one heart.)
Pure Song Hae.
That is correct.
(Viewers felt the same, right?)
- Lee Se Dol! - Lee Se Dol!
I have never in my life,
got the correct answer for a nonsense quiz.
- You just got one correct. - You got it correct.
- Since you think in a logical way, - It's not that.
- it must have been hard for you. - That's true.
(That is why he is experiencing something difficult but new.)
Game Two requires memorizing skills and sharp concentration.
It's a card game called "Match Up".
(Game Two "Match Up" Card Game)
You turn over two cards, and try to match the same photos.
Why did you laugh?
I will be so terrible at this too.
- It will be fun. - It's finding pairs.
- That's right. - It's finding pairs.
You must find all the pairs.
The one who has the most cards wins.
Dong Wook will go first.
(Level 17, Lee Dong Wook goes first.)
- We can look? - Yes.
- They are different. - This is...
Turn them over.
- Next is you, Se Dol. - We can never do this.
Who is this?
- Who can it be? - He looks fresh.
Both of you have failed in the first round.
- It's Dong Wook's turn now. - First...
(It's happy Lee Se Dol.)
He looks cheerful.
I really can't get this.
Photos are really difficult.
Also they are different expressions of a person.
- I think this came out. - Yes.
(Sadly, he fails.)
- It's back to Dong Wook. - Okay.
They are the same.
You have succeeded.
- I have succeeded. - Yes.
(Where did I see this photo?)
It leads memorizing skills.
(It's this one!)
If only there were two fingers less.
The photos are subtly differently.
- One person only uses fingers. - Photos are difficult.
This is not easy.
- I think photos are very difficult. - True.
First...
- That is my photo. - Yes, it is.
- Do Yeon. I'm sorry. - Yes?
I think Se Dol talks too much.
I'm sorry, but please.
(Please)
- You have to be quiet at a game. - It's not that.
(He turned the card over without thinking, and it's the same one.)
I was surprise.
You got the right one.
- You got the right one. - Is it the same one?
(He is moved.)
They are two same photos of you.
They are the same.
How did you reach level nine?
It is revealed he is the endeavoring type.
(Se Dol is not a born genius, but the endeavoring type.)
I think I saw this.
I think we already saw this photo of Dong Wook.
No, I can't find it.
It's a pity.
- It's Dong Wook's turn again. - Let me see.
I think we saw this card before.
- If my memory is correct... - Yes?
(Level 17, Lee Dong Wook succeeds.)
You have succeeded.
- I saw this before. - I think so too.
(He succeeds two times in a row.)
He succeeds two times in a row.
Now, Dong Wook...
(Dong Wook's brain is working hard.)
I think it's this one.
He takes two more cards in a row.
This is a mismatch.
Se Dol complains this is a mismatch.
(Level 17, Dong Wook wins.)
This was the greatest match to round up year 2019.
Lee Se Dol versus Lee Dong Wook.
- What's so great about it? - We will finish here.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
(We would like to thank Lee Se Dol for suggesting this section.)
This is Because I Want to Talk.
And we are talking with Lee Se Dol.
After talking with you,
- I find that you're very frank. - That's true.
You express yourself very well.
What is your actual personality like?
Well...
It's a bit difficult for me to talk about my own personality.
I want to pass this question to my wife.
He tossed the mike to her in a naturally way.
What is his actual personality like?
Do I have to be honest?
You don't have to be honest.
That was a real talk between husband and wife.
Like you, there are many people who think...
my husband is cool-headed and serious.
- Many people think that. - That's right.
But when he is with me, he is fun and cheerful.
There were many times I wished people could see this side of him.
He must be very different when he is at home.
They are many times he kills me with words.
(They are many times he kills me with words.)
You are doing good.
When he is at home, he plays around.
He spends with your daughter.
Does he do that a lot?
He used to play around and spend time our daughter.
Nowadays, he is too busy watching girl groups.
(He is too busy watch girl groups.)
(Girl groups?)
Oh, dear.
- Girl groups? - That's top secret.
- What is this about girl groups? - What's it about?
I have sort of...
become a real fan now.
I've become a real fan now.
It's really strange to hear him say that.
It doesn't suit him.
Which girl group have you become a fan of?
I never thought I would talk about this.
It's Oh My Girl.
Oh My Girl!
What was it that you liked about the group?
Actually, I didn't know much about them.
- I saw them in an audition program. - Yes.
I see.
I thought they were good, and searched for their songs.
I really like "Remember Me".
"Remember Me".
I just liked it.
The title was also...
- It was "Remember Me". - "Remember Me".
In some ways...
it seemed to reflect my situation.
I like their "Secret Garden".
I know "Secret Garden".
Even when I didn't know the group, I knew the song.
It is a well-known song.
Should I be talking like this?
You were like the head of their fan club.
This talk between older guys about a girl group is fun.
I shouldn't be talking about them so early in the show.
I need to think before.
That's why today...
That why today...
(Closing his mouth tightly with happiness)
That's not it?
(These productions rascals.)
I was tricked too.
Mr. Producer, what are you doing?
You should have invited them.
(Disappointed)
I am sorry.
You two married a bit early.
- You married when you were both 24. - Right.
Was she your first love?
(Was she your first love?)
I think so.
- Probably. - "I think so. Probably".
(We assume she is his first love.)
- He said, "Probably". - His memory is not that good.
That's weird.
- She is your first love. - Yes, she is my first love.
How did you two meet?
How did you first meet?
- At first, someone... - Yes?
- introduced us. - I see.
I usually become friends with people easily.
- But he was a famous person. - Right.
- Right. - So it was hard for me...
to act comfortably with him.
So I said, "It was nice meeting you today."
And I was about to go home in a taxi.
- He held the door open for me. - Yes?
He said, "Shall we exchange phone numbers for this occasion?"
That's so cool!
He said, "Shall we exchange phone numbers for this occasion?"
(He is Macho Se Dol.)
You did ask for her phone number.
I did?
I think you're level nine for dating as well.
(He is level nine for dating.)
I think that scene is so cool.
- I know. He holds the taxi door. - Yes.
"Shall we exchange phone numbers for this occasion?"
(It's a real drama.)
- When I meet a woman I like, - Yes?
I should put her on a taxi.
Even if she brought her car, I'll tell her to take a taxi.
(The flaw of this confession is putting the woman on a taxi.)
- You have to make her. - "I have to do something."
- Actually... - Yes?
since you are a celebrity, it's difficult to ask you...
about your love life. But since we're on the subject...
Yes?
- Since we're on the subject... - I see.
That's a nice one.
Yes.
- Lee Se Dol! - Lee Se Dol!
- He's drinking water. - If it's difficult to talk about,
at least tell us about your ideal woman.
- My ideal woman? - Yes.
- Any other question? - You can tell us...
- something stronger. - Yes.
- Right. - Be comfortable.
- What something stronger? - Tell us something we don't know.
Since he asked you the question personally.
You should answer it candidly.
Anything about your dating life.
Anything like that.
- Anyway... - Right.
It's like this actually.
From the start, I wanted to ask you this.
But since you are a celebrity, I was afraid of being rude.
- But since we're on the subject... - I see.
(He can't give up the question.)
That was nicely done.
Since we are on the subject,
you're asking how I ask for phone numbers?
- Yes. - That's good.
That's good.
I just ask for the number.
I can't wait for her to get on a taxi.
If I am interested,
I ask, "What is your phone number?"
- You're straightforward. - I say, "I will call you."
Then, I meet her the very next day.
We eat together.
There were times like that.
(He is now aware of his reality.)
- That's was good. - You're straightforward.
- That's was a good answer. - What just happened?
What is this situation?
I see.
People say Go is a reduced version of life.
The countless choices that have to be made in Go...
are very similar to life.
Whether you win or lose in Go,
you reflect and recuperate for the next game.
Starting today, we could reflect on our lives.
So we could prepare for a better future.
I think today will be a good chance to do that.
We could find the choice of a lifetime.
You never know.
Mr. Lee Se Dol has been with us today. Thank you.
(We cheer for Lee Se Dol who is starting his 2nd act in life.)
(One day in December)
(SBS Lobby)
(Because I Want to Talk)
I'm Cho Jung Sik, the Talk Analyst.
I am the essential personality...
in Because I Want to Talk.
I think Cho Jung Seok is appearing in Because I Want to Talk.
- Cho Jung Seok? - No way.
- That's great. - It's Cho Jung Sik.
I monitor the program with a keen eye.
Did you watch last week's "Mom's Diary"?
- You saw "Unanswered Questions"? - Who came on "The Law of Jungle"?
Did you see the new talk show?
The one with Lee Dong Wook?
What's the name of the program?
"Because I Talked"?
- "Because I Wanted to Talk"? - It was a bit long.
In order to get closer to the viewers,
we need an abbreviated title that will make them remember.
"B.I.T."
"BeWaTa?"
"Be Talk"? Shall I go for that?
Talk? Barf?
No.
No!
This is one talk show that will warm your heart...
this winter.
We want to have an abbreviated title.
So we are waiting for your votes.
(Because I Want to Talk)
(Please cast your votes on our official website.)
(We will present prizes through a lucky draw.)